tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post4267136051364863934..comments2024-03-24T09:35:58.910-04:00Comments on Word and Seed in Uganda: Should We Send "Ordinary Christians" as Missionaries?Anthonyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-52656624651273566322017-01-18T00:56:26.371-05:002017-01-18T00:56:26.371-05:00Sort of related - https://vimeo.com/131019234?utm_...Sort of related - https://vimeo.com/131019234?utm_content=buffer2a233&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer<br /><br />He says - "I would take that one qualified and trained man over a thousand partially trained men."Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-85176841343803195982016-10-18T23:42:48.909-04:002016-10-18T23:42:48.909-04:00Hi Jim, I remember your name, but I'm trying t...Hi Jim, I remember your name, but I'm trying to remember how I know you. Can you remind me? I feel bad I don't remember.<br /><br />Thank you for the comment. It's a struggle for all missionaries, including me, to get off the internet and keep spending time with the people. One advantage we've always had is being basically the only foreigners in our area. So all of our friends are local people instead of other foreigners. We are also working hard on learning Swahili, it's time that really limits us, but we are going to try to become fluent!<br /><br />Your idea of covenants of limiting time would be really interesting. Let me know if you ever hear of people actually doing that, and how it works for them :) I feel like you'll get a lot of pushback to that idea, but it's not a bad oneAnthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-1619992331260782932016-10-18T17:36:38.176-04:002016-10-18T17:36:38.176-04:00Thank you, Anthony. I read this when it first hit ...Thank you, Anthony. I read this when it first hit my inbox (thanks to a friend) and twice since then. Your cautions are most fitting, your thoughts no way demeaning Swindoll's point nor proposing a new "elite." Rather, your emphasis on "set apart" and preparation are crucial. Always as part of the preparation, it is crucial, I think for deep spiritual introspection, accompanied by mature, judicious, critical directors/mentors. In our years overseas we saw many who were prepared academically, though ignorant in cross-cultural society. Getting back into the missionary culture deeply after many years only dipping into it a few times a year as a pastor, retreat leader or on sabbatical, I continue to see a fair bit of naivete, which can be perceived as arrogance. Much of this still occurs because North American missionaries have such a difficult time getting out of the dominant culture and its interpretation and presentation of the Gospel and Gospel values. As well--and this is perhaps most worrisome--I've seen in the last several years more and more missionaries who for hosts of reasons (overwork, demands and expectations from supervisors and supporters) are finding it every more difficult to deeply acculturate. Many work in English almost exclusively, hang out w/ English-speaking friends in off-times, fly back to North America at least annually or more. That and many other things more related to our incredibly mobile and unconsciously affluent lives inhibit deep rootage in the country/culture of ministry and, in fact, often promote a sense of dissatisfaction (envy even?) among national colleagues. As well, of course, there's the ubiquitous internet which puts missionaries in instant contact w/ support groups and family at home, reducing possibility of intimate mentors in the place of service. Perhaps as part of training and preparation it would be good to sign covenants of limitations of internet time, of communication w/ familY (I'm not kidding)..... Still and always, thanks so much for your thoughts and discernment.Jim Dekkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10136860543133645919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-84789065887657505822016-09-29T10:22:00.538-04:002016-09-29T10:22:00.538-04:00Thanks Nalini! I'm not advocating for perfect...Thanks Nalini! I'm not advocating for perfection, or preventing people from going as missionaries by a long list of rules. But it's good to help people realize what they personally need to feel prepared. Let me know how your meeting goes :) Thanks for the good work you do!Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-63554114733245384692016-09-29T09:16:24.229-04:002016-09-29T09:16:24.229-04:00This is challenging and helpful as we continue to ...This is challenging and helpful as we continue to recruit, train and send missionaries. Thanks for this post - - I've shared it with some of my colleagues and we'll talk about this during our meeting next week as we think strategically about the way we want to on-board and send out effective, Christian, cross-cultural workers. Grateful! :-) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06328263236908983173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-66151910042704213832016-09-28T13:44:46.273-04:002016-09-28T13:44:46.273-04:00I just read the post. Many good thoughts there. ...I just read the post. Many good thoughts there. Ultimately it's about balance, between the two pendulum swings - don't make missionaries into superChristians, but don't act like they are just humdrum run of the mill Christians either. <br /><br />I take issue with a few points of that post. Contrary to the post, missionaries ARE set apart. That's a very biblical idea. The apostles sent missionaries, laid hands on them, set them apart, and sent them off. (Acts 13:2)<br /><br />I don't think of myself as special forces, but I do think of myself as a Christian leader capable of leading God's people. For missionaries who don't feel that way and get depressed (thinking about the first point in the post you sent), perhaps they have not prepared enough, and maybe aren't called to be leader of God's people. That sounds harsh. It's not about being perfect, or being infallible, it's about knowing you are set aside and prepared to do a task that other Christians aren't called to do. Take their arguments and apply them to pastors, and you see how silly some of this reasoning is. Don't we want our pastors to be more spiritually mature and knowledgeable than us? Of course! Shouldn't missionaries be mature Christians too? Of course, pastors are sinful and imperfect and we need to remember not to idolize them as well. But we do expect them to be spiritually mature enough to lead us. So why expect any less of missionaries? That's starting to get at what I mean by best of the best.<br /><br />In many ways I think the post gets it right, but too late. The pendulum has already been pushed too far in the other direction. We are no longer in the culture that idolizes missionaries. We have moved now too far in to the other direction of not preparing missionaries enough.<br /><br />It's not about being "better" or "more important" than other Christians. It's about being prepared for the difficult and unique work. When I talk about "best of the best" I'm just saying that is a logical idea. Of course we know that all Christians, including missionaries, are sinful and imperfect. But it only makes sense that we would send Christians who are mature in faith, knowledgable and ready to preach, rather than young immature Christians who aren't ready. That's all I mean by best of the best. Leveling the playing field completely and saying all Christians are exactly the same, is not biblical, nor helpful. You can say that Christians are at different levels of maturity and preparedness without being arrogant.<br /><br />In full agreement with that post, I would say that the mission field is not where all the serious Christians need to go. We are all called to different things and we need Christians in all fields of God's kingdom work, including medicine, politics, engineering, you name it. And being a Christian politician, for 1 example, sounds a lot more difficult to me than being a missionary. We are all called to different things and we all sacrifice in different ways. You will see that I don't think I'm really sacrificing much compared to many in the US - http://anthsara.blogspot.com/2015/07/do-i-sacrifice.html<br />Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-8021430908418447492016-09-28T13:26:04.158-04:002016-09-28T13:26:04.158-04:00Thank you Anthony for your reply! I whole heartil...Thank you Anthony for your reply! I whole heartily agree on the importance of making sure one does not get the wrong message from a single tweet. On a separate note, I wonder if you could expound upon the phrase, "best of the best?" In the podcast, I believe one of the messages Pastor Swindoll was trying to convey was our perception and/or words we choose to describe missionaries, elders, and pastors often conjure up super hero characteristics, skills and abilities. Is it possible to emphasize the importance of all that you shared while substituting a different phrase or descriptor for best of the best? Or do you believe this is a necessary part of our overall understanding of the types of individuals needed for the task? I've linked a blog post on this topic (the comments section is worth reading too): http://www.alifeoverseas.com/the-idolatry-of-missions/ I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer here. Thank you for your insights! I always appreciate it :) Blessings, MichelleRob & Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13475573022280782170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-67742864573547927412016-09-26T09:25:57.377-04:002016-09-26T09:25:57.377-04:00Thank you Rob and Michelle for that thoughtful com...Thank you Rob and Michelle for that thoughtful comment. It is always good to get the original content, in context. But I don't disagree with the tweet anyway, I just want people to make sure they don't take a wrong message from it through misunderstanding. I like Chuck Swindoll a lot. I thoroughly agree with you about saturating everything in prayer too! If I get time sometime soon, I'll have to check those out.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-19599639019307197752016-09-26T08:18:57.740-04:002016-09-26T08:18:57.740-04:00I wanted to better understand the quote from Chuck...I wanted to better understand the quote from Chuck Swindoll you shared. I downloaded the mp3 from Insight for Living. The quote was part of a podcast series he did in January of 2014 (same time of tweet). I think you would find it insightful: https://store.insight.org/p-803-can-ordinary-people-make-a-contribution.aspx Sometimes it is hard to fully understand the meaning behind a single tweet. I thought it was well worth my time to dive deeper behind the intended meaning. Along with listening to the podcast, I read this message from John Piper on training pastors and missionaries: http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/training-the-next-generation-of-evangelical-pastors-and-missionaries I especially appreciate the concluding exhortations. To quote Piper, "Knowing (God) and being (sold out to Him) comes before doing and shapes doing." I would add saturate everything in prayer to your thoughts, "Let’s make sure whatever missionaries we send are thoroughly prepared, experienced, counseled, discipled, and trained before they go." Blessings to you, MichelleRob & Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13475573022280782170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-91060569501632556642016-09-23T11:11:28.306-04:002016-09-23T11:11:28.306-04:00Chick Swindoll is wrong, if he means to send out u...Chick Swindoll is wrong, if he means to send out untrained missionaries. Could he have possibly meant that "instead of sending a trained missionary by himself, we should send some ordinary Christians along too, to accompany the trained missionary in his mission." That might make some sense so that folks could learn what ordinary North American Christians are like and what they believe. But it makes absolutely no sense to send ordinary Christians by themselves. William Durkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00469202249252171485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-16129776323784540802016-09-16T23:27:01.910-04:002016-09-16T23:27:01.910-04:00Calvin Seminary's process has been long and fr...Calvin Seminary's process has been long and frustrating for many. But I'm glad that we take ordination so seriously in our denomination.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-63225952950182971112016-09-16T15:47:51.466-04:002016-09-16T15:47:51.466-04:00Thank you for sharing these insights, Anthony. Man...Thank you for sharing these insights, Anthony. Many of the same problems are evident in people going into pastoral ministry often with similar consequences - burn out, moral failures, etc. Thanks for prodding us to think more about both calling and training.Mary Vanden Berghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03091378540728827194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-10614140189512380542016-09-16T08:56:10.975-04:002016-09-16T08:56:10.975-04:00I appreciate how deeply you think through difficul...I appreciate how deeply you think through difficult issues and always learn from what you take the time to share. Thank you for this post.Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13321933046538381935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-38319980739748376562016-09-15T14:43:15.371-04:002016-09-15T14:43:15.371-04:00Thanks David for clarifying! I was wondering who ...Thanks David for clarifying! I was wondering who it was :) God bless you in your ministry and thank you for leading MEFC in passion for missions. We really appreciate you and how you take the time to read our updates and encourage us in the midst of your busy ministry! Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-43086641879234361762016-09-15T14:38:48.142-04:002016-09-15T14:38:48.142-04:00I should have said that the 'anonymous" w...I should have said that the 'anonymous" was Pastor David from MEFC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-59888779829879566642016-09-15T14:37:05.733-04:002016-09-15T14:37:05.733-04:00Anthony, thanks for writing this piece. I share yo...Anthony, thanks for writing this piece. I share your views.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-654415853263052432016-09-15T14:22:52.969-04:002016-09-15T14:22:52.969-04:00Amen to that Than, that's a good supplement fo...Amen to that Than, that's a good supplement for my post!Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-61647025637609019432016-09-15T14:22:16.627-04:002016-09-15T14:22:16.627-04:00Thank you Carol! As you discuss together, let me ...Thank you Carol! As you discuss together, let me know if you have any follow up comments, criticisms, or ideas to share back to me :)Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500317366078942484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-37955538189090217592016-09-15T12:30:42.678-04:002016-09-15T12:30:42.678-04:00Thanks for this, Anthony. Something I've felt ...Thanks for this, Anthony. Something I've felt is often missing when it comes to sending missionaries overseas is a strong, and even long, discernment process (this is alluded to in your post, particularly in the testimony part). Prior to being sent to Ethiopia, I went through a year long discernment process that aimed to affirm God's call to that particular position as well as my training and gifts for such a setting. However, this discernment process was not done in isolation between myself and the sending agency; it was done in community involving family, friends, other missionaries, several churches (some known to me some not) and even the partner church (probably the most vital piece, in my mind). In some cases, I sense this process is ignored or downplayed; after all, they might say, who are we to question God's call on someone's life. But Scripture clearly tells us to be discerning of the Spirit. I value those agencies that have a deep commitment to the discernment process. Sometimes it might be clear that someone is called and ready; other times it might not be so clear. In either case, though, a community is needed to participate in and guide the discernment process, a community that extends beyond the agency and the person(s) being sent. And, I think, this process needs to be implemented for short-term missions, too.Thanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14355111794144301614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3557012237356669397.post-32332969213356873292016-09-15T12:01:49.677-04:002016-09-15T12:01:49.677-04:00So thought provoking, Anthony! Peggy has challeng...So thought provoking, Anthony! Peggy has challenged our mission team at MEFC to read this & consider it carefully. She is wise. I so appreciate you always being willing to share your personal experiences in humility, brother. Perhaps this conviction will lead you to teaching/preaching on this topic. I will save this post in a file! Know your willingness to take time to write this out is being used to bolster our global missions work in Midland! God bless you & Sara as you work diligently for His coming kingdom! Carol Hoaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14790069985061554526noreply@blogger.com